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May 13, 2013

E-25 and "112" stats

Source: Game3dmodels via Ogogopogo (US)

E-25


Tier: 7
MM balance weight: 27
HP: 830
Hull armor: 50/30/30
Turret armor: 0/16/16
Speed limit: 65/20
Penetration: 198/244/38
Damage: 135/135/175
Rate of fire: 18.75
Accuracy: 0.31
Aim time: 1.5
View range: 360
Signalrange: 710
Weight: 26 025
Price: 3 200 Gold



112



Tier: 8
MM balance weight: 48
HP: 1 550
Hull armor: 120/80/60
Turret armor: 240/130/60
Speed limit: 45/15
Penetration: 175/300/61
Damage: 390/390/465
Rate of fire: 5
Accuracy: 0.46
Aim time: 3.1
View range: 380
Signal range: 600
Weight: 45 725
Price: 12 250
Elevation arc: -6..+17

Also, this tank seems to be real, not a WG fantasy - a Chinese site has whole description of it.

Edit: good guy Zanyu Ren translated it for us :) Thank you! Thanks to Anson Wu also for partial earlier translation and corrections.

Communist Party of China request the Soviet Union provide nuclear weapons and nuclear submarines as promised at April and July 1958. The Soviet Union, in return, suggests building long-wave radio station in Chinese territory and organizing combined fleet with China in China's territorial water. China believes that this suggestion violated China's sovereignty, which leads to the breakoff of Sino - Soviet relationship. In order to prevent the invasion of Soviet Union, China accelerate the process to develop heavy tanks which can effectively fight against Soviet Union's T-10M and IS-3 tanks.

At this background, the WZ-112 project is launched. 112 heavy tanks has 5 crews. Crew cab is located in the front part of the central, which is the same as IS-2 heavy tank and significantly different from the traditional location (front-left) of China tanks. Batteries and Shells are located at both sides of the driver. Transmission system is located at the mid-front of hull, turret placed at the rear. An important feature of this tank is longitudinal engine mounting, different from most Soviet and China tanks, which are transverse engine mounting. Transverse engine mounting allows the overall compact layout. However if the length of some high-power engine is longer than the width of the tank, it has to be longitudinally mounted without choice. Additional fuel container is placed at the bottom of fighting compartment to increase the maximum travel of the tank to 400km. Most noteworthy feature of this tank is the adaption of '3-liquid' device which are hydraulic transmission device, hydraulic control device and adjustable liquid-gas suspension. However, this tank had not entered mass production because of the inadequate industrial level at that moment.

This tank adapt 120mm smoothbore gun which can deal surprisingly high damage. Some people say this tank is equipped has 152mm cannon mounted version historically, which is not quite credible. In 1960s, the industrial level of China is overall poor and the technology of turret was not completely transferred from Soviet Union. If the caliber of gun is too large, the shoots will blow the turret off the tank. So it is better to treat this rumor as a joke.

86 comments:

  1. "Elevation arc: -6..+17" this will be wonderful on wz-120, wz-121

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This is basically the Chinese equivalent to the IS-6.

      Delete
  2. At least it depress lower then most Chinese tanks...

    ReplyDelete
  3. Wow, WG is throwing out of the window historical gun stats in order to sell more premium crap... Armor looks fishy as well, will investigate.

    That makes me just sad.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Check the PzGr designation. L as in "Lang"? Was there even such a thing?

      Delete
    2. I will take a look, many stats seems fishy.

      Delete
    3. Allright, armor stats are correct and the gun seems the standard 75mm L/70.
      Will check Spielberger when at home but since E-series were about simplified production I doubt we'll find anything unusual.

      Delete
    4. L is used for the L/70~L/100 guns in WoT to describe the 39/42 shells.

      Delete
    5. It has the exact same pene stats as the L/100 BTW, for whatever reason. E-25 looks interesting, TBH. Crap armour and presumably rather limited gun movement, but insane mobility and great camo. Gun has average pene and terrible alpha, but better accuracy than 99% of all vehicles, amazing RoF/aim time, and high DPM. And it's damn smexy as well. Considering I'm planning to have three tech tree German TDs, I'm considering getting this. Too bad the camo skill is useless for the tier VIII+ ones and meh for the JP, though. -Platypusbill

      Delete
    6. It is a game. Not a sim. WG has said that WoT has never been about historical realism, but balance and making money. If WoT was realistic my Type 62 would be able to pen the upper front plate of a Maus with its HEAT shells.

      Delete
    7. @Nat Crichton that is a problem of the user not the tank. It is not that hard to Sprem to Victory especially in the current meta of high alpha,mobility and Sprem everywhere.

      Delete
  4. 198mm penetration with a 7,5l70?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's the 7,5L100, that the Panther uses as top gun too.

      Snortsch

      Delete
    2. It clearly says L/70, click on the pics.

      Delete
    3. Maybe it shoots APCR/HEAT/HE? XD

      Delete
    4. Initially the tank was designed with the L/70 but it was later adapted to fit the same gun as schmalturm panther F, eg the L/100. Do your own research you muppets.

      Delete
    5. Schmalturm on the Panther F was going to fit a KwK 44/1, which was a modified 75 L/70.

      I don't believe a 75 L/100 was ever made nor prototyped.

      Delete
  5. Wow that E-25 *0*

    It's like a StuG, only faster firing!

    DEFINITE BUY!!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Its more like a Hetzer on steroids, same shape and look but more stylish.

      Why no 70km/h and above???

      25t with 700hp.

      Delete
    2. As it was calculated back in 1943, it was said maximum ground speed would be about 65 kph.

      Delete
  6. only 60 shots on E-25 with a 18 rof gun and 135 alpha. Poor little tank ;_;

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. yep, looks like another hopeless german tank.

      Delete
    2. Are you seriously going to use about 8k worth of damage in shells regularly? Especially since the accuracy, aimtime, and penetration enables most shots to go where you want them to and punch through. -Platypusbill

      Delete
  7. E-25 better than Dicker Max wow

    ReplyDelete
  8. 112 looks like a pain to play againts, and a pain to play as...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Actually it looks better than the IS-6, well slopped glacis ideal for angling, should bounce a lot. Same crap gun but 300mm pen with premium ammo... Might be worth investing in!

      Delete
  9. E-25 is too cheap for a tier 7 premium tank.
    3200 gold costs the tier 6 premium tanks.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Well, the E-25 seems to become a good TD: great camo value (as good as Jagdpanzer IV; if not better), fast and precise gun with enough penetration. Only the lack of alpha damage is not so good, but at least a good DPM: 2531.

    ReplyDelete
  11. would have buy the e25, but again only 4 crew members... useless for crew training :S

    ReplyDelete
  12. "120MM HuaTangBao" means 120MM smoothbore gun and
    "152MM cannon version of the truth of the claim" means 152MM howitzer

    in English

    Google translation sucks btw....

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. the last paragraph should be translated as
      This tank uses 120 mm smoothbore gun with suprising high damage. Some students in the internet claims that this tank has version mounting 152 howitzer, but with low reliability of source. This is because the industrial level of China was not high, and the technology of turret was not transferred by USSR. With high radius of the gun, the turret will blow out. That is why we can treat this (WZ112 mounts 152mm howitzer) as fake. LOL!

      Delete
    2. Only error in that translation.
      The source says "152mm Cannon" not howitzer.
      Firing a 152mm howitzer like the KV-2 will not blow the turret off the tank, but firing a 152mm long barrel gun (refered to Cannon in Chinese) might.

      Delete
    3. sorry for that... yes it should be cannon.

      Delete
  13. btw any details on engine power?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. My guess will be some where between 520 to 600hp.
      Most likely that 580hp engine that just about every tier 7~9 Chinese tank has. That will give it slightly lower power to weight ratio to the IS-6 which this tank mimics in play style. In line with Chinese tanks having weaker engines to their Soviet equivalent.

      Delete
  14. E25 50mm front armor? Another great WG "historical correct". I am pretty sure it should have atleast 60mm. I really doubt that germans would give it weaker armor than hetzers and jagdpz4 if it was to replace them.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sure, because that was what the Germans actually planned it to be: http://i.imgur.com/PTj7uKm.png

      Next time try reading, ignorant one.

      Delete
    2. Armor has to be light unfortunately due to the gun placement.
      Heavy armor + long gun in front = unbalanced tank as already proven by JagdPanzer IV.

      Delete
    3. Armour does not have to be super "thick" when you slope it.

      NEMO.

      Delete
    4. It's still at best on par with the StuG at the front, with slightly better sides.

      But hey, considering the 65km/h top speed with LT-like accel/traverse and probably best-in-class camo, I'm willing to drive a tier VII paper box.

      -Platypusbill

      Delete
    5. front armor has a 40° slope turning the 50mm to 65.3mm. the top of the tank is 80° and 20mm but with the slope it should be acting as 115mm.
      quick slope stats for general use: 30° = +15.5%.....45° = +41.4%.....60° = +100% (doubles thickness)

      Delete
  15. Hnnggg I need that E-25, but the playstyle seems to be too much like the Panther with terrible alpha and other stats buffed to make up for it. I've never really liked the rof-sniper idea, kinda like giving a marksman a .22 varmint rifle. The cost and some of the other stats also point to a tier 6 tank, unless MM is seriously tweaked.

    Goblin_5

    ReplyDelete
  16. The E-25 looks like a great little support TD, like the fast firing accurate gun (0.31 Ya!). Just let the team light them up; and snip away! A most definite buy!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. So you want to spend real money for a Panther without turret, with less HP, ammo and pen? (acc to data sheet 198 is max pen, avg is 191)

      Me too, because it's cute - but only if the price stays at tier 6 level.

      Nekrodamus EU

      Delete
    2. Nekrodamus, think about how the camo on this thing is going to be.

      Delete
    3. He also seems to conveniently forget about having an extra 17km/h top speed and proably about double the acceleration/maneuverability- not to mention the gun performance. -Platypusbill

      Delete
  17. Something is wrong with the description:

    Judging by its price (3200 gold) it will be a tier 6.
    The price of a tier 7 premium is around 5500 - 6700 gold.

    If it is released like this,everyone will buy a dirt cheap tier 7 premium TD.

    Imagine its cost in case of discount........

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Comparing this 'Panther light' to SU-122-44 (or regular tier 7 TDs) 3200 gold are allready maximised.

      Delete
    2. It's still in tests. I am sure the price is not yet decided.

      Delete
  18. That 112 probably is going to have some bad shot RNG, since 300 pen HEAT rounds are deemed "necessary" by WG. Shots are probably going to fly all over the place lol.

    ReplyDelete
  19. The problem is that WG keeps making premium tanks or new tanks in new line with high penetration premium ammo. This in fact encourages players to buy premium account to earn more credits...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. and in return WG earns more from that

      Delete
    2. Yeah, the T69 and quite a few of the CH tanks have insanely high penetration gains from gold ammo. -Platypusbill

      Delete
  20. btw, about crew again, i wonder is crew compatible with stugIII? i ask because it says commander(radio), and stug says loader(radio).

    ReplyDelete
  21. The real 112 picture in this site was described as "122 medium tank".
    http://big5.china.com/gate/big5/military.china.com/zh_cn/critical/25/20051022/12775494.html

    ReplyDelete
  22. I am Chinese, and this is my translation. Although it might not be 100% accurate, but it is much more readable than the google translate version. You can update this to your blog if you want.

    Communist Party of China request the Soviet Union provide nuclear weapons and nuclear submarines as promised at April and July 1958. The Soviet Union, in return, suggests building long-wave radio station in Chinese territory and organizing combined fleet with China in China's territorial water. China believes that this suggestion violated China's sovereignty, which leads to the breakoff of Sino - Soviet relationship. In order to prevent the invasion of Soviet Union, China accelerate the process to develop heavy tanks which can effectively fight against Soviet Union's T-10M and IS-3 tanks.

    At this background, the WZ-112 project is launched. 112 heavy tanks has 5 crews. Crew cab is located in the front part of the central, which is the same as IS-2 heavy tank and significantly different from the traditional location (front-left) of China tanks. Batteries and Shells are located at both sides of the driver. Transmission system is located at the mid-front of hull, turret placed at the rear. An important feature of this tank is longitudinal engine mounting, different from most Soviet and China tanks, which are transverse engine mounting. Transverse engine mounting allows the overall compact layout. However if the length of some high-power engine is longer than the width of the tank, it has to be longitudinally mounted without choice. Additional fuel container is placed at the bottom of fighting compartment to increase the maximum travel of the tank to 400km. Most noteworthy feature of this tank is the adaption of '3-liquid' device which are hydraulic transmission device, hydraulic control device and adjustable liquid-gas suspension. However, this tank had not entered mass production because of the inadequate industrial level at that moment.

    This tank adapt 120mm smoothbore gun which can deal surprisingly high damage. Some people say this tank is equipped has 152mm howitzer mounted version historically, which is not quite credible. In 1960s, the industrial level of China is overall poor and the technology of turret was not completely transferred from Soviet Union. If the caliber of gun is too large, the shoots will blow the turret off the tank. So it is better to treat this rumor as a joke.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Feel free to correct my grammar errors if there are some :)

      Delete
    2. 120mm smoothbore gun replaced by a 122 d25t clone, nice change :P

      Delete
    3. They've said several times "THERE WILL BE NO SMOOTHBORE GUNS INGAME!!!"

      Delete
  23. 112 has balance weight of 48. I assume same as IS-6

    This tank looks like to be better or equal at every department than IS-6 but dpm and side armor.

    300mm HEAT prem ammo is sick. WG stated that they don't balance tank in regards to premium ammunition, which means that it will be balanced according to AP with ridiculous prem ammo as a pure bonus.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Pff, if that E-25 is better than the SU-122-44 with that low price... then dang it.

    ReplyDelete
  25. I doubt that WZ112 gets favored matchmaking like IS-6. All premiums with 300mm Goldpen doesn't have favored matchmaking. Why does it need favored matchmaking anyways? Seems to be a tank if no obvious weaknesses.

    ReplyDelete
  26. i was waiting for that E-25 but now i see its a shit like always with german tanks

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It have insane 2531.25 DPM with an absolutely pen, absolutely hit troll gun and nice mobility, what the hell you want? An I win button?

      Delete
    2. german tank players are shit.FIXED for ya

      Delete
  27. Penetration: 198/244/38

    StuK 42 getting buffed again?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No, this is some "special" version.

      Delete
    2. These are L/100 gun values. Maybe E-25 will get L/100 and L/70 on screens is just an error?

      Delete
    3. Prem tanks generally have historical modules, on tech tree tanks it doesn't matter because if the RL ones are inadequate, upgrades can be added. They just arbitrarily buffed the gun for the E-25 to make it viable at tier VII. -Platypusbill

      Delete
    4. Platypusbill needs to go read about how the design was adapted to fit the L/100 late in the design period.

      Delete
  28. The E-25 seems super fun. I don't think WG should make tanks that can actually be effective when played properly premium tanks. I'd gladly grind that thing out in the tech tree, not pay money for it.


    PS:Does anyone have an account on gamemodels3d they might be willing to share?

    ReplyDelete
  29. Here are the images of the stats for the 112. I'm working on doing this for every artillery piece that is going to be added to the game, but as there is plenty of artillery, I have to compile 36 pictures. One for the model, one for the armour model, and two for the stats.


    http://i.imgur.com/mvH3wBQ.jpg

    http://i.imgur.com/OPx2BuY.jpg

    ReplyDelete
  30. The E-25. It has StuG gun (name, name of ammunition), and yet these statistics are clearly not StuG's gun. First of all accuracy should be 0,33 not 0,31, but OK same gun on different tanks may have slight accuracy differences. But the penetration? 184-198? Why so narrow value spread? Shouldn't it be +/-25%? And average penetration is not 138 like on StuG, it is 191, waaaay better. What is going on? Is the L/70 gun going to receive another buff (and buff of such magnitude that StuG will undoubtedly lose it)? Or is it only some error in name, similar situation to the JT Ausf. A version of the 88L/71 gun?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The range of penetration on gamemodels3d does not show RNG min-max values, it shows penetration loss over distance (note the 38-38 pene on the HE shell; HE/HEAT/HESH has no dropoff). As for the gun, they used to add "ausf B", "A1", or something like that as an excuse for differring stats, but it seems they just stopped caring- however, it is, after all, just the supertest so far. -Platypusbill

      Delete
  31. Something just crossed my mind- why is it just called "E-25" and not "JgPz E-25"? Was the chassis only ever intended to be used for the TD? Or is it just that there is no info on what the E-25 light (medium?) tank would have been like? -Platypusbill

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I do not believe that they every had formal names beyond E-XX due to the conditions that existed at the time. After all this whole series of designs were supposed to be simple, straightforward and for rapid production. There is info buried in the archives. It is like that on obscure U-Boat designs (personal hobby) which are hard to come by but are available if you dig deep enough. Usually it means looking up and translating the original German papers and following the paper trail and knowing where paper trail would/could exist if a gap suddenly appears.

      Even in the Russian archives... The info us usually there but its all about knowing where to look. Sometimes, (personal research projects dealing with local history) what you want is filled in the wrong place or was mixed in with other papers before it was ever filled away. Or it could be just lost. But if we remember that this is the Germans who took note on almost everything and then save them... Its more then likely the info is still around. Heck even propaganda that exist in the late 1920's but then was lost (all copies supposedly destroyed) has been "rediscovered" in archives as late as the 1970's, found, shoved in between old books.

      NEMO.

      Delete
    2. Sorry for the typos. I am half-asleep.

      NEMO.

      Delete
    3. I can tell you it was designed to replace the Hetzer, so its definitely meant to be a TD, doesnt have to be called a jagdpanzer E 25 though.

      Delete
  32. 700 HP pushing 25 tons...

    That's a good power to weight ratio if i ever saw one

    ReplyDelete
  33. -8 gun depression? wow, a must have for slopes and hills

    ReplyDelete
  34. I had just learned about the E-25, and judging by the hull armor and the slope, it will be easily killed by other tanks if they go through the sloped armor.

    ReplyDelete
  35. HEY! THEY SAID NO SMOOTHBORE GUNS! WTF!

    ReplyDelete
  36. Battle: Arctic Region 2013. július 9. 13:17:33
    Vehicle: E-25
    Experience received: 2 236 (x2)
    Credits received: 41 993
    Battle Achievements: Top Gun, Sniper, Sharpshooter, Master Gunner, Mastery Badge: "Ace Tanker"

    first battle in this guy, despite all the negative sidess (poor gun, hp, armor) i found it as a german elc amx... small, fast, annoying to enemies :)

    ReplyDelete
  37. __________________112_pros_and_cons______________________________
    pros:
    -strong hull
    -strong turret
    -strong commanders hatch (240 mm)
    -fast for a heavy tank (45 kph)
    -can act as a medium in sticky situations
    -very good penetration with heat shells (300 mm)
    -rounded turret
    -guns under 200 mm penetration cannot penetrate frontal hull
    -sloped frontal hull
    -good view range
    -good radio range
    cons:
    -bad gun depression (although common for Chinese tanks)
    -No preferential matchmaking
    -bad accuracy
    -long aim time
    -poor penetration with AP shells

    ReplyDelete